1 00:00:01,599 --> 00:00:03,520 Charles Lee: Good afternoon. 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:08,559 My name is Charles Lee, I am the Senior Policy Advisor 3 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:13,360 for Environmental Justice at the US Environmental Protection Agency. 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:19,268 We want to welcome you to this inaugural session of the Environmental Justice 5 00:00:19,292 --> 00:00:22,720 and Systemic Racism Speaker Series. 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,160 We are really pleased to share with you the news 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,359 of how this topic has really resonated with members of the American public 8 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:36,088 as evidenced by the fact that nearly 12,000 persons-- 9 00:00:36,112 --> 00:00:43,147 actually some 12,000 persons have registered for this session. 10 00:00:43,171 --> 00:00:47,440 We want to start with some logistical information. 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,508 Please use your question and answer pod to submit questions 12 00:00:51,532 --> 00:00:55,440 and we will attempt to answer as many as possible 13 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:03,520 including those we pose to our speakers doing the question and answer portion of this session. 14 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:10,560 Our speakers today are co-founders of the Mapping Inequality Project what-- 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,604 Robert Nelson who is the Director of the Digital Scholarship Laboratory 16 00:01:16,628 --> 00:01:18,799 at the University of Richmond 17 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:24,652 and LaDale Winling, Associate Professor of American History at Virginia Tech. 18 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:30,400 Their unique collaboration helped to create a foundational resource 19 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,008 for unprecedented research education, organizing and policy advocacy 20 00:01:36,032 --> 00:01:40,275 on redlining and current environmental challenges 21 00:01:40,299 --> 00:01:43,768 particularly those related to the climate crisis. 22 00:01:43,792 --> 00:01:50,788 It provides publicly accessible digitized shape of files, 23 00:01:50,812 --> 00:01:56,240 a redlining map for nearly-- for about 200 cities. 24 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,447 This resource has already generated an explosion of trailblazing work 25 00:02:01,471 --> 00:02:05,587 in the area of environmental justice and systemic racism 26 00:02:05,611 --> 00:02:10,479 and is in my opinion a true game changer in the making. 27 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:13,120 Next slide. 28 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:21,440 I want to say a word to introduce this series. 29 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,879 It is predicated on the premise that truly achieving environmental justice 30 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:32,480 will require addressing systemic racism and other structural inequities. 31 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,344 Our objectives are, as listed on this page, to provide information 32 00:02:37,368 --> 00:02:41,667 to strengthen the evidentiary link between historical inequities 33 00:02:41,691 --> 00:02:44,800 and current environmental conditions. 34 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,560 Inspired people everywhere to think about this issue. 35 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,768 Align the best thinking available to create productive partnerships 36 00:02:53,792 --> 00:03:01,680 and create the intellectual ferment necessary to create a truly transformative change. 37 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,840 Advance the slide. 38 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:11,120 This slide is a graphic of how current environmental dispara-- 39 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,200 environmental disparities have their roots in systemic racism. 40 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,660 Our colleagues at California EPA overlaid the digitized redlining maps 41 00:03:20,684 --> 00:03:24,967 for the city of Oakland, California with CalEnviroScreen, 42 00:03:24,991 --> 00:03:29,987 their environmental justice cumulative impact mapping tool. 43 00:03:30,011 --> 00:03:34,108 You can see the correlation between those errors classified 44 00:03:34,132 --> 00:03:36,959 as the hazardous or the worst environment-- 45 00:03:36,959 --> 00:03:41,689 and the worst environmental disparities today. 46 00:03:41,713 --> 00:03:45,519 There are many things we can draw from this graphic 47 00:03:45,519 --> 00:03:49,200 which our speakers today will speak to during this session, 48 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:55,487 I do however want to point out the conscious nature of the redlining exercise 49 00:03:55,511 --> 00:04:03,040 as demonstrated by the verbatim text on the slide of the surveyor's descriptions from the 1930s. 50 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,280 They reflect how these actions were taken with full consciousness 51 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,000 of the environmental conditions involved. 52 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,868 With that I will turn over to our speakers today 53 00:04:14,892 --> 00:04:21,120 LaDale Winling first who will discuss the next few slides 54 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:29,840 and we'll hand it off to Rob Nelson. 55 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,608 LaDale Winling: Thank you, Charles and thank you to all of the EPA staff 56 00:04:34,632 --> 00:04:36,000 who helped make this possible 57 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,604 and of course thank you to all of the attendees. 58 00:04:38,628 --> 00:04:44,528 I want to say briefly a description, an explanation of what historical redlining is, 59 00:04:44,552 --> 00:04:48,639 we've heard about it in newspapers, discussions in public policy 60 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:53,840 and what we draw upon it's what's at the basis of the mapping and equality project 61 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:59,120 is the work of the Homeowners' Loan Corporation and the Federal Housing Administration 62 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,068 which were two agencies created during The Great Depression. 63 00:05:04,092 --> 00:05:09,337 HOLC was meant to rescue the housing market from the financial crisis 64 00:05:09,361 --> 00:05:14,720 and FHA was meant to restructure home finance for the rest of the century 65 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:20,160 and when the Homeowners' Loan Corporation put its federal appropriations towards 66 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,207 refinancing a million mortgages with billions of dollars 67 00:05:24,231 --> 00:05:27,388 there was no national database of real estate information, 68 00:05:27,412 --> 00:05:32,960 so real estate leaders and economists wanted to capture local knowledge 69 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:40,828 from appraisers and realtors and lenders in cities around the country with a survey 70 00:05:40,852 --> 00:05:46,800 and in the process they worked to define what was a good investment 71 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,000 in terms of a house and in terms of a neighborhood 72 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,748 and what was a bad investment and why, right? 73 00:05:53,772 --> 00:05:57,600 Like what were the levels of risk and how do we know. 74 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:04,468 So that series of programs in that survey came to be known as redlining 75 00:06:04,492 --> 00:06:07,756 and I want to say four things about redlining. 76 00:06:07,780 --> 00:06:13,108 One, we've discovered historians and then we draw upon this 77 00:06:13,132 --> 00:06:17,777 is that redlining was racial and environmental, right? 78 00:06:17,801 --> 00:06:21,350 That's kind of the key first bullet point here. 79 00:06:21,374 --> 00:06:26,960 The second is that it was forceful, the power of the federal government behind it. 80 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,560 Third is that it was lasting. 81 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,788 A mortgage from the Homeowners' Loan Corporation was started at 15 years 82 00:06:35,812 --> 00:06:41,520 and now we think of 30 years as kind of the standard length of a mortgage 83 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,214 and some people when they buy a home, they are in a neighborhood 84 00:06:46,238 --> 00:06:53,440 for almost the entirety of their adult lives, it can be 50 years with one investment. 85 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,240 But the paper trail that HOLC and these local informants left 86 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,027 is decipherable and understandable 87 00:07:00,051 --> 00:07:05,199 and we can kind of peel back the layers and we can understand 88 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:11,840 their thinking at the time and realize how this process of racial segregation 89 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,120 and discrimination was created. 90 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,560 So on the next slide please. 91 00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:24,639 I'll take you through a couple examples in our collection that we draw upon 92 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:25,824 in mapping and equality. 93 00:07:25,848 --> 00:07:28,319 And the first is in Tacoma, Washington. 94 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:32,800 This is a college town in the pacific northwest 95 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,639 and you can see this color-coded map which is the maybe the best-- 96 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:40,319 best-known artifact of redlining and HOLC. 97 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:43,759 The red neighborhoods are deemed bad risks hazardous, 98 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,879 the green neighborhoods are the best neighborhoods 99 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,360 and are excellent risks for investment. 100 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,879 So next slide. 101 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:59,840 And this is an example of the kind of racial nature of how these neighborhoods are defined. 102 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:05,447 These two neighborhoods D1 and B2, the Proctor District in Tacoma 103 00:08:05,471 --> 00:08:12,320 are really one neighborhood except in that small red group of six blocks, 104 00:08:12,344 --> 00:08:16,479 there were a handful of African-American families 105 00:08:16,479 --> 00:08:23,968 and if we can go to the next slide we can see what the federal officials wrote 106 00:08:23,992 --> 00:08:28,560 "Three highly respected negro families own homes and live in the middle block 107 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,880 of this area facing Verde Street. Much above the average of their race 108 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,760 it's generally recognized by realtors their presence seriously detracts from the desirability 109 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,279 of their immediate neighborhoods." 110 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:44,720 So even in a desirable neighborhood of kind of middle class families 111 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:53,627 realtors and federal officials carved out a smaller neighborhood for redlining. 112 00:08:53,651 --> 00:08:55,839 Next slide. 113 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,600 Another example, moving into the environmental realm 114 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,530 is from the industrial suburb of Chicago in Joliet, Illinois 115 00:09:03,554 --> 00:09:08,788 and so I'll talk about this red neighborhood down at the southern end of town. 116 00:09:08,812 --> 00:09:12,640 If we can go to the next slide. 117 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,243 From these area descriptions which go along with the maps, 118 00:09:17,267 --> 00:09:23,680 realtors and officials wrote, as you can see in the highlighted area, 119 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,708 "Odors from the canal and creek are bad. North of Hickery creek is lowland 120 00:09:27,732 --> 00:09:32,880 with big retaining wall. Refuse from the Chicago drainage system collects here 121 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:38,959 and refuse is emptied. All land south of the creek is rough and unsuitable for cultivation 122 00:09:38,959 --> 00:09:43,688 and the American Cynamid and Chemical Corporation and the Blackson Chemical Company 123 00:09:43,712 --> 00:09:46,480 are located in the south of this area. 124 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:55,811 So these surveyors and realtors delineated environmental hazards, sources of pollution 125 00:09:55,835 --> 00:10:00,968 that would affect real estate and the neighborhood for a generation to come. 126 00:10:00,992 --> 00:10:03,440 And if we go to the next slide. 127 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,440 We can further see under this category of detrimental influences 128 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,079 on the survey form, it says canal and Hickery Creek odors 129 00:10:12,079 --> 00:10:17,598 chemical odors, colored people are listed as detrimental influences. 130 00:10:17,622 --> 00:10:22,079 So racial demographics and the presence of African-Americans were defined 131 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:30,399 as a nuisance just in the way that environmental hazards had been at this time in the 1930s. 132 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:34,160 And for a final example, we'll go to the next slide. 133 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,508 Akron, Ohio which is kind of the home of the birthplace 134 00:10:38,532 --> 00:10:40,654 of the American rubber entire industry. 135 00:10:40,678 --> 00:10:47,545 So I'll mention this red neighborhood in the center of the city. 136 00:10:47,569 --> 00:10:52,768 And if we go to the next slide, from the area description they say 137 00:10:52,792 --> 00:10:57,987 "Heavy traffic along Wooster Avenue. The district is affected by odor, smoke and dirt 138 00:10:58,011 --> 00:11:02,079 from the nearby Goodrich Rubber Company plant. 139 00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:06,399 The declining district is heavily populated by low-class Jews, 140 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:12,397 all stores are Jewish owned and the present heavy negro encroachment is gradually increasing." 141 00:11:12,421 --> 00:11:21,848 And so we see that the process of redlining in delineating environmental hazards 142 00:11:21,872 --> 00:11:27,167 and racial demographics kind of put them together and institutionalized this 143 00:11:27,191 --> 00:11:32,959 with the power of the Homeowners' Loan Corporation and the Federal Housing Administration. 144 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:38,128 These are just a few examples of what we found in the course of our investigations 145 00:11:38,152 --> 00:11:40,008 and made available. 146 00:11:40,032 --> 00:11:43,839 And if we can go to the next slide. 147 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:49,368 This was a collaboration by Rob and me and a number of other people. 148 00:11:49,392 --> 00:11:56,331 two key partners were Nathan Connolly and Richard Marciano, two other scholars 149 00:11:56,355 --> 00:12:02,000 and we've made this-- all of these materials available for 150 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:10,907 download of maps, for access of GIS shapefiles as well as all of the area descriptions 151 00:12:10,931 --> 00:12:14,720 so that people in hundreds of cities across the country 152 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,959 can investigate their own communities on issues of racial discrimination in housing 153 00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:28,000 or in environmental-- environmental discrimination and environmental injustices. 154 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:34,880 With that, now that we've kind of illustrated what the archival project discovered, 155 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:42,000 I'll hand it over to my colleague Rob to talk about what we did with it. 156 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,388 Robert Nelson: Hi everyone. 157 00:12:43,412 --> 00:12:47,736 I wanna begin by thanking Charles and everyone at the EPA for having us today 158 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:54,160 I also just want to pick up on Dale thanking our colleagues Richard and-- 159 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,480 Richard Marciano and Nathan Connolly. 160 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,040 I also want to thank some of my colleagues at the DSL 161 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:04,560 Justin Madren, Nate Ayers, two colleagues who worked on this project as well 162 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:08,160 and then I also want to thank a number of our undergraduates. 163 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,680 We had undergraduates that have been working on this project for-- 164 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,959 well not the same undergraduates but for 10 years and they've done 165 00:13:14,959 --> 00:13:18,160 like the massive amount of data we have, 166 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,330 we wouldn't have been able to do that without some of the undergraduates 167 00:13:22,354 --> 00:13:25,200 who worked on this project at the University of Richmond 168 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,880 and Dale has some students at Virginia Tech who worked on this as well. 169 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,600 Before I continue talking about redlining I also want to 170 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:42,079 just give a little bit of advertisement, shout out to the coming speakers in the series 171 00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:46,560 like I think really we're really the opening act in this series and the main events 172 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:51,008 are still to come because we're kind of doing what I think is the easier work today 173 00:13:51,032 --> 00:13:54,248 of identifying the problems of racial and environmental justice 174 00:13:54,272 --> 00:14:00,333 and it's in the next and the third and the fourth in the series 175 00:14:00,357 --> 00:14:09,108 where there'll be more attention paid to how these historical environmental injustices 176 00:14:09,132 --> 00:14:12,108 are addressed and remedied in the future. 177 00:14:12,132 --> 00:14:14,560 So I really do recommend everybody sign up for that. 178 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:17,760 I think Charles is giving a link at the end to the next one. 179 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:25,360 Okay, we're on this download page and I want to say that while-- 180 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,876 I'm really happy with the number of people that make use of mapping inequality every day. 181 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:36,426 One of the great things about this project and we didn't anticipate 182 00:14:36,450 --> 00:14:42,068 it's how people would take our data and use it towards ends and for purposes 183 00:14:42,092 --> 00:14:43,519 that we didn't anticipate. 184 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:50,160 So I just wanted to invite anybody who's-- thinks they can use this in their work 185 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,228 to come to the site and all our data whether you're interested in the whole data set 186 00:14:54,252 --> 00:14:59,237 or you're interested in the data set for your city you can get any and all of it. 187 00:14:59,261 --> 00:15:00,880 I see I'm kind of-- 188 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,954 I'm glancing over and I'm seeing the amount of traffic-- 189 00:15:02,978 --> 00:15:05,600 we got a little bit of bumping traffic from these 12,000 people, 190 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,120 I'm-- honestly if you want a true screen experience and go to mapping inequality 191 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,868 I'm kind of curious if we can bring down our site like we've never had it brought down 192 00:15:13,892 --> 00:15:17,120 but I think if we get a couple thousand people on this at the same time 193 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,360 we might grind that thing to a halt which actually I'd be curious to see if we could do that. 194 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,120 But if Google mapping [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 195 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,399 if it fails wait till later tonight. 196 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:36,867 Okay so one organization that we've had the chance to work with 197 00:15:36,891 --> 00:15:41,199 it has downloaded, used this data and used it to really great ends 198 00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:45,199 is the national reinvestment-- 199 00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:49,680 National Community Reinvestment Coalition which works on issues of wealth 200 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,508 inequality and affordable housing 201 00:15:53,532 --> 00:16:00,133 and this past year they worked on a report that was about the correlations 202 00:16:00,157 --> 00:16:04,408 between redlining in the 1930s and health disparities today 203 00:16:04,432 --> 00:16:08,880 and this was particularly motivated by the racial inequities 204 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,000 we were seeing and the incidences and deaths related to COVID. 205 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,240 And so we connected with them and did have an opportunity 206 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:27,947 to work with him on this project and I want to show you an example of these-- 207 00:16:27,971 --> 00:16:35,279 this connection between redlining in the past and environmental disparities today. 208 00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:38,480 Okay, see the note, am I sounding okay, everybody? 209 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Thumbs up for my-- okay. 210 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,248 Could you go to the next slide please? 211 00:16:44,272 --> 00:16:48,968 So this is-- this companion site called 212 00:16:48,992 --> 00:16:52,320 Not Even Past: Social Vulnerability in the Legacy of Redlining, 213 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:58,560 should put up the URL and yeah-- 214 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,327 So what we're looking at here is obviously on the left is the redlining map 215 00:17:04,351 --> 00:17:09,919 and on the right is a map of census tracts where the color is reflective 216 00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:15,439 of something called the social vulnerability index which is an index that's put together 217 00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:20,201 by the CDC that takes into account a lot of health data 218 00:17:20,225 --> 00:17:25,280 as well as some socio-economic data to come up with a score between 219 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:31,440 zero and one with zeros being communities that have low social vulnerability 220 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,405 and those close to one have a high social vulnerability, 221 00:17:35,429 --> 00:17:38,908 and the colors, the green it's like a weather map. 222 00:17:38,932 --> 00:17:43,278 So the greens are low social vulnerability and as you move into reds 223 00:17:43,302 --> 00:17:47,839 and these kind of neon pinks, those are high social vulnerability 224 00:17:47,863 --> 00:17:51,840 and the area that's highlighted there is the same area 225 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:59,008 that Dale was just talking about that had the Goodrich Rubber Factory in it, 226 00:17:59,032 --> 00:18:02,480 and what you'll see here is that this neighborhood today, 227 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,441 80 years after that map was made and that survey was produced 228 00:18:06,465 --> 00:18:08,799 has instilled incredibly high social vulnerability, 229 00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:12,799 it's an overwhelmingly African-American neighborhood and it has kind of an alarming 230 00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:17,200 social vulnerability score of 0.85. 231 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,288 Can you go to the next slide? 232 00:18:19,312 --> 00:18:23,475 And I'm going to talk in a second about the incidences of disease 233 00:18:23,499 --> 00:18:26,968 and the health disparities in this area. 234 00:18:26,992 --> 00:18:32,883 But on this slide I just want to point out the life expectancy there in the middle 235 00:18:32,907 --> 00:18:36,960 because these incidents of health now they kind of have what you-- 236 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:45,047 the impact, the results that you would expect is that they lower life expectancy in this area 237 00:18:45,071 --> 00:18:51,148 and this really brings it home that the life expectancy in this area is under 70 years 238 00:18:51,172 --> 00:18:55,854 and that is-- all those dots are other census tracts in the city, 239 00:18:55,878 --> 00:19:02,368 so there's other areas in the city where the life expectancy is over 11 years higher 240 00:19:02,392 --> 00:19:07,468 so there's a pretty substantial gap, 11 year gap in life expectancy 241 00:19:07,492 --> 00:19:08,400 if you want to see-- 242 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,608 some of these census tracts which aren't that far from one another, right? 243 00:19:10,632 --> 00:19:12,720 we're talking just a series of miles. 244 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,919 Could we go to the next slide please? 245 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:19,877 So here are these incidences of disease. 246 00:19:19,901 --> 00:19:28,663 So one in eight people in this census, this area suffer from asthma, middle on cancer. 247 00:19:28,687 --> 00:19:31,919 Next slide, please. 248 00:19:31,919 --> 00:19:35,280 Really high incidence of diabetes one in four, 249 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,775 half of the population has high blood pressure and one in 20 has kidney disease, 250 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:45,708 again these are all at the upper end for the Akron as a whole. 251 00:19:45,732 --> 00:19:47,760 Next slide, please. 252 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,152 Mental health problems is one in five, obesity is half right at the top again 253 00:19:52,176 --> 00:19:57,440 and pulmonary disease is one and eight then right at the top. 254 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,135 And like I-- we do want to be really careful about drawing conclusions 255 00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:06,492 but it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me, they have this site 256 00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:09,688 that has been a site of heavy industry for a century 257 00:20:09,712 --> 00:20:11,924 and that's a place where people are having trouble breathing 258 00:20:11,948 --> 00:20:17,280 because of asthma emphysema chronic bronchitis as we see in these results. 259 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,088 So I know we're going to be talking here a second 260 00:20:19,112 --> 00:20:21,520 so I want to just end with one final point 261 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:28,559 And [UNINTELLIGIBLE] that's something I said earlier 262 00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:30,888 when we did this project we were certainly thinking about history 263 00:20:30,912 --> 00:20:33,788 we certainly think housing and wealth inequalities 264 00:20:33,812 --> 00:20:37,828 because we knew that there was a correlation between redlining in the past 265 00:20:37,852 --> 00:20:40,799 and racial and wealth inequality today. 266 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:44,388 We weren't really thinking that much about issues of health 267 00:20:44,412 --> 00:20:48,159 and issues of the environment-- there's really other people that have-- 268 00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:51,607 the work of people that you're gonna hear later in the series 269 00:20:51,631 --> 00:20:56,559 that have sensitized us to the environmental language in the area descriptions 270 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:03,487 and the uses of this data set for environmental justice purposes. 271 00:21:03,511 --> 00:21:08,480 And as just kind of echoing Dale again, 272 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:14,159 it's just as we've been thinking about environmental language in this data set 273 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:21,015 it's just made it clear to us that these environmental injustices are far from new, 274 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:24,667 that they've been there for the past century 275 00:21:24,691 --> 00:21:28,880 and I'm sure longer with those with the most power and privilege 276 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,171 enjoying the lion's shares of environmental benefits, 277 00:21:32,195 --> 00:21:35,360 things like trees and shades, scenic views 278 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,228 and those look-- considered the less power and privilege people of color 279 00:21:38,252 --> 00:21:40,400 and poor people particularly, 280 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,159 they're consigned to areas with the greatest natural environmental burdens, 281 00:21:44,159 --> 00:21:48,159 examples being things like flooding that we saw in Joliet, 282 00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:50,508 as well as man-made environmental burdens, 283 00:21:50,532 --> 00:21:54,720 locations of slaughterhouses, incinerators, dumps industrial sites 284 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,534 that are intentionally sited in or near their neighborhoods. 285 00:21:59,558 --> 00:22:03,840 So segregation wealth and equality and environmental inequities 286 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,200 have gone hand in hand throughout the 20th century 287 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,200 and it's only through anti-racist and environmental justice policies 288 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,080 and actions in a sustained way that we have any hope 289 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,316 that this will not be the case for the 21st century. 290 00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:20,960 With that I'll turn it back over to Charles. 291 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,000 Charles Lee: Great, that was a great presentation. 292 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,725 And as you guys were talking I was just thinking about 293 00:22:32,749 --> 00:22:37,440 all the different ways that this information can be utilized. 294 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,760 So I just wanna get into a few points with you. 295 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:49,200 So the first one is that about the fact that you, both of you are historians 296 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,559 not only historians but you see yourselves as practitioners and proponents 297 00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:59,868 of the idea of shared history and applied history. 298 00:22:59,892 --> 00:23:06,850 So how has that motivated or guided your motivation and a vision for this project, 299 00:23:06,874 --> 00:23:18,348 how has the idea of using digital technology to carry out this vision been effective? 300 00:23:18,372 --> 00:23:31,120 So let me ask both of you to answer that question and I will start with you LaDale. 301 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,520 LaDale Winling: Thank you and I'll say 302 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,919 I fundamentally believe as a historian and have throughout my career 303 00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:46,159 that understanding the processes of the past 304 00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:52,895 helps us know first what we-- how we got to the conditions that we're in today 305 00:23:52,919 --> 00:23:56,720 and can give us some guidelines or understanding about 306 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:03,088 how to unwind problematic policies and how to like prepare for change. 307 00:24:03,112 --> 00:24:07,293 Like historians-- that's fundamental to what we think 308 00:24:07,317 --> 00:24:11,760 but you know I'll say there was an event that we had at Virginia Tech 309 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,267 where the journalist Nicole Hannah Jones was talking. 310 00:24:15,291 --> 00:24:19,279 She studied history in college and she said-- 311 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:25,695 it was like I was in the matrix and once I learned enough history, 312 00:24:25,719 --> 00:24:29,919 it was like you could finally see the ones and zeros and the code 313 00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:36,640 flowing behind the world that we live in, that the way things are isn't the way-- 314 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,640 isn't the way that they've always been. 315 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,919 And unlocking that, that first time you realize you're like "Wait a second, 316 00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:48,428 what else has been made in the world around us?" 317 00:24:48,452 --> 00:24:52,640 And historical research gives us the tools. 318 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,480 I had that interest in redlining as an urban historian, 319 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,039 my graduate work and when we formed the collaboration 320 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:05,600 I think it was in some ways just as simple an idea as 321 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,760 when I and Rob and Nathan and Richard 322 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:16,848 knew about this, we thought "Well, great seems like historians understand about redlining 323 00:25:16,872 --> 00:25:21,038 but what about people who haven't been to the National Archives? 324 00:25:21,062 --> 00:25:25,204 What about people who haven't reflected upon the history of mapping 325 00:25:25,228 --> 00:25:30,080 or the history of the Homeowners' Loan Corporation and the FHA, 326 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,880 maybe they, if given access to this with some guided interpretation, 327 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:42,080 they could think similarly or have their own realization about 328 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,600 racial segregation racial inequality not being natural, 329 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,748 not being chosen or not being the fault of the people who suffer 330 00:25:49,772 --> 00:25:54,320 but being a system that was created and kind of imposed upon them." 331 00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,488 And that is something that animates, I think all of our efforts with the fundamental belief 332 00:26:00,512 --> 00:26:05,279 that if the public knows and understands and has access to this, 333 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:12,240 they too can reckon with both what's great and beautiful in our society 334 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,440 and what's like terrible and ugly. 335 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,188 Rob? 336 00:26:16,212 --> 00:26:18,480 Robert Nelson: Yeah just echo that. 337 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,027 For me, the entree-- I'm not a urban historian 338 00:26:23,051 --> 00:26:27,120 or 20th century historian but trainee of a 19th century. 339 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:31,520 As a historian I was originally working on slavery and anti-slavery, 340 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,943 now I spend most of my time doing 20th century urban history 341 00:26:35,967 --> 00:26:49,508 but for me, it was my kind of own recognition of the draw dropping racism in the Richmond map. 342 00:26:49,532 --> 00:26:53,968 My entree into this was to do a small digital project that was called 343 00:26:53,992 --> 00:26:58,799 Redlining Richmond that was just focused on Richmond and I did that partly because-- 344 00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:02,640 well partly because I got interested in this history and it's partly because I saw 345 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,320 the potential of making this available that it could spark 346 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,308 and contribute to conversations about racial and wealth and equity in my own community 347 00:27:11,332 --> 00:27:16,880 which there's lots of racial and wealth inequities in Richmond. 348 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,748 And having done that then I knew there's 200 of these things 349 00:27:20,772 --> 00:27:24,314 and if it can help with conversations in Richmond 350 00:27:24,338 --> 00:27:26,988 it can help with conversations in Saginaw, Michigan 351 00:27:27,012 --> 00:27:32,000 it can help with conversations in Phoenix, Arizona, it can help with Akron 352 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,128 which we talked about with Tacoma. 353 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,587 Tacoma's where I went to school, that's one of the reasons we picked that one out 354 00:27:36,611 --> 00:27:39,748 is that Proctor District is just a few blocks from where I went to college 355 00:27:39,772 --> 00:27:41,953 at the University of Puget Sound. 356 00:27:41,977 --> 00:27:46,640 So people making these available, so people can explore this where they live, 357 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:54,480 see some of the history, the policy history that is behind what they see in terms of 358 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,936 the contours of a privilege and vulnerability and poverty in their own community 359 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:04,320 just seemed like kind of a no-brainer and I'm speaking of no-brainers 360 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,840 I could say that-- 361 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,961 well I just say that this is not like the most genius idea, right? 362 00:28:10,985 --> 00:28:17,530 Like these-- you got these maps and you've got this set of documents 363 00:28:17,554 --> 00:28:23,188 which is predates the computer but is laid out like a kind of 1930s database. 364 00:28:23,212 --> 00:28:27,548 And so we did what was obvious with these, 365 00:28:27,572 --> 00:28:31,728 they themselves invite some kind of treatment as a mapping application 366 00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:36,240 with a textual database behind it. 367 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,288 Charles Lee: Great, thanks so much for that 368 00:28:42,312 --> 00:28:49,520 and I want to go to the next question which is for Rob. 369 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,799 and I kind of just build on what you just said 370 00:28:52,799 --> 00:29:00,159 which is that--this project or your project on the mapping inequality and other-- 371 00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:06,513 other maps that you've developed is not just about maps, 372 00:29:06,537 --> 00:29:12,327 it provides documentation that brings historical and policy context to life 373 00:29:12,351 --> 00:29:18,640 in a really vivid way and-- 374 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:25,679 So how would you think that this work that you've done visualizes 375 00:29:26,399 --> 00:29:31,600 illuminates and can educate about systemic racism? 376 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,108 Robert Nelson: Yeah, I mean that is the-- 377 00:29:34,132 --> 00:29:39,976 one of the really remarkable things about this particular archive 378 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:51,535 is that it is so clear in its racialist and racist assumptions and assertions 379 00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:52,898 I should say, right? 380 00:29:52,922 --> 00:29:57,039 But there's-- I use this line all the time like 381 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,214 there's no dog whistle here there's just a whistle, right? 382 00:29:59,238 --> 00:30:03,760 Because you there's no subtext it's just text, you just--you kind of-- 383 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,609 I even have this after spending ten years looking at these things every once in a while 384 00:30:07,633 --> 00:30:11,679 I'll stumble upon something that will make my jaw drop because it is so-- 385 00:30:11,679 --> 00:30:18,688 well so racist and point and clear and kind of unapologetic in its racism or its nativism. 386 00:30:18,712 --> 00:30:25,679 And so that's what makes this powerful is because the maps themselves are clearly 387 00:30:25,703 --> 00:30:27,519 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 388 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,039 but it's when you start looking at the kind of qualitative 389 00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:36,000 and the quality of language behind it 390 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,679 and the assumptions and presumptions and stereotypes and racism, 391 00:30:39,679 --> 00:30:44,559 that's evidence there-- and classism too and anti-semitism, nativism 392 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:52,128 that it really brings home in a very visceral way how racist this is 393 00:30:52,152 --> 00:30:55,987 and the point that really needs to be underscored here-- 394 00:30:56,011 --> 00:30:58,559 you did this at the beginning yourself Charles, that this is 395 00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:07,148 not like just private racism in between individuals in the Jim Crow marketplace, right? 396 00:31:07,172 --> 00:31:10,185 This is documents that were produced by the federal government, 397 00:31:10,209 --> 00:31:15,279 so this--these are examples of racist policies, they're example of a state-sanctioned 398 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:17,101 and state advanced racist policies 399 00:31:17,125 --> 00:31:22,399 that doesn't become a legal until Fair Housing Act of 1968. 400 00:31:22,399 --> 00:31:29,760 And while we're talking about talking about text too, I want to invite 401 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,120 people to make use of the text says data as well, 402 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:38,399 we've only last probably a matter of months really kind of finished transcribing 403 00:31:38,399 --> 00:31:41,228 all 7000 area descriptions that we have in there, 404 00:31:41,252 --> 00:31:42,880 a few more that we'll be adding. 405 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,228 And I really think there's a lot of potential to treat those textual documents as data 406 00:31:47,252 --> 00:31:53,081 just as people have used the spatial data for really interesting projects 407 00:31:53,105 --> 00:31:57,200 and just to give you one example that is related to the environment, 408 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,519 I took our-- the textual, the descriptions, the text from them 409 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:06,267 and I threw them into a text classifier and I will get geeky about this 410 00:32:06,291 --> 00:32:10,175 but text classifier I think are like your email program, email comes in 411 00:32:10,199 --> 00:32:16,240 and there's a little algorithm behind it that looks at that thing 412 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,828 and says this is spam and goes into your junk folder 413 00:32:19,852 --> 00:32:23,039 or this is not spam and it puts it in your inbox 414 00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:26,836 and I did the same thing but instead of spam and not spam, 415 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:33,247 I have four categories: a, b, c, d, best, still desirable, definitely declining, hazardous. 416 00:32:33,271 --> 00:32:37,847 And yeah so I trained the thing-- trained a classifier on this 417 00:32:37,871 --> 00:32:42,799 and then I can look at the words that are most predictive of any of those grades 418 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,971 and it lays out in terms of class wise as you'd expect, 419 00:32:47,995 --> 00:32:53,259 language about people of color is concentrated in redlined neighborhoods 420 00:32:53,283 --> 00:32:56,240 but there's a lot of environmental language there. 421 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,976 So a, b neighborhoods the words that were predictive of those 422 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,519 that have some kind of environmental 423 00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:07,840 resonance are words like wood, shade, trees, shrubbery. 424 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,120 For c and more so for d neighborhoods is words like 425 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,132 paved, treeless, hard surfaced, flood hazard, obnoxious odors. 426 00:33:16,156 --> 00:33:21,288 And I know the next two presenters are going to be talking about heat islands 427 00:33:21,312 --> 00:33:27,224 and it's just being clear when I saw that but these are not a new phenomenon, 428 00:33:27,248 --> 00:33:31,088 these heat disparities between formerly redline neighborhoods 429 00:33:31,112 --> 00:33:34,188 and formerly greenline neighborhoods they were there at the beginning, 430 00:33:34,212 --> 00:33:40,078 the greenline neighborhoods had a lot more trees and a lot more landscaping 431 00:33:40,102 --> 00:33:44,028 and the redline neighborhoods had a lot more impervious surfaces, 432 00:33:44,052 --> 00:33:48,392 I'm going to bake in that heat, make this place hotter a century ago 433 00:33:48,416 --> 00:33:53,120 just like they're hotter today. 434 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,931 Charles Lee: Great, thank you. 435 00:33:54,955 --> 00:33:59,519 The next question for LaDale is this, 436 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:06,640 you once said that redlining provided the Rosetta Stone for the spatial organization 437 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:14,168 of American cities, can you explain that more and how do you think that that can contribute 438 00:34:14,192 --> 00:34:20,560 to a deeper analysis of environmental justice issues? 439 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:27,747 LaDale Winling: Yeah just as linguists and archaeologists use the Rosetta Stone to decipher 440 00:34:27,771 --> 00:34:39,440 Egyptian hieroglyphics, we can use these maps to interrogate or understand the structure 441 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:45,821 of American cities, any city that I go to whether I know it well or not, 442 00:34:45,845 --> 00:34:50,268 I actually go to our website maybe on a mobile phone and I pull up the redlining map 443 00:34:50,292 --> 00:34:56,079 and I think "Where am I right now? What do they have to say about this neighborhood 444 00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:58,347 and what does it look like now?" 445 00:34:58,371 --> 00:35:02,074 And you know the first couple times that I encountered these maps 446 00:35:02,098 --> 00:35:09,760 I was like "Wow this is from 80 years ago, looks really similar to how it looks today." 447 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,090 And I thought how is that continuity possible? 448 00:35:15,114 --> 00:35:20,640 When I started doing the archival research and the scholarly research 449 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:29,040 we understand that how explicit racism can be embedded into a systemic 450 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:35,548 and seemingly race neutral like discriminatory system. 451 00:35:35,572 --> 00:35:38,960 I study real estate appraisal among other things 452 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:45,872 and this-- the process of real estate appraisal was developed 453 00:35:45,896 --> 00:35:49,788 basically by the same people, economists and realtors in the 1920s 454 00:35:49,812 --> 00:35:56,720 and then with federal officials in the 1930s at the very same time and to work hand-in-hand 455 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:01,119 with these area descriptions and redlining maps. 456 00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:06,400 And now while like redlining is we can look at a map and we could say 457 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,240 "Yes, we know what that's about now." 458 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:12,960 There's been enough coverage and there's been enough explanation. 459 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,976 It's very rare that you would look at a real estate appraisal for your home 460 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:26,335 and think "This is an instrument with racial discriminatory tendencies kind of built into it." 461 00:36:26,359 --> 00:36:31,599 And so this process of surveying, this process of mapping, 462 00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:38,448 this process of building public policy and then with federal regulation going back out 463 00:36:38,472 --> 00:36:47,359 and teaching the private sector how to do appraisals, what the basis of value in real estate is 464 00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:54,868 gives us this kind of code book or guidebook because it's a template, 465 00:36:54,892 --> 00:37:00,880 we would not say that or we very we should be very hesitant to say that 466 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,400 the designation of any single neighborhood 467 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:10,374 caused the rejection of a single real estate mortgage or home mortgage 468 00:37:10,398 --> 00:37:15,200 or that it caused any particular individual illness 469 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:23,119 but what it did was it set a pattern and it put public policy and it put billions of dollars 470 00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:25,508 behind these sets of designations. 471 00:37:25,532 --> 00:37:33,668 So for example, the path of interstate highways is very strongly correlated 472 00:37:33,692 --> 00:37:41,148 with the redlined and maybe c-rated yellow neighborhoods in American cities 473 00:37:41,172 --> 00:37:48,320 as Rob said and it's because they were not politically powerful 474 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,400 and they had been designated as expendable and having no future 475 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,000 no quoting from area descriptions in some cases. 476 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,855 And so all of the environmental and public health problems and challenges 477 00:38:01,879 --> 00:38:07,520 that interstate highways bring, for example, are correlated and built on top of this 478 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:13,280 kind of designation and the template of the redlining mapping and designation process, 479 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:20,640 by the same token, a project that Rob has developed about urban renewal in American cities. 480 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,280 Again, very strongly correlated because these same policy makers 481 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:31,359 were building upon generation after generation this kind of evaluation that they got 482 00:38:31,359 --> 00:38:39,627 from private real estate developers, bankers, appraisers and kind of leading political figures. 483 00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:48,320 And so understanding that these maps were the first step in a set of multi-generation 484 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,680 policies and infrastructure building and interventions 485 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,325 helps us, helps us understand how a map from the 1930s 486 00:38:57,349 --> 00:39:04,560 can be such an important indicator and give us a lens into kind of where 487 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,057 to target our equity interventions in the present. 488 00:39:09,081 --> 00:39:10,079 Charles Lee: Wonderful. 489 00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:15,040 And just what-- I just wanted to make a plug, make sure everybody knew 490 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:21,628 the projects that are involved in this effort is not just mapping inequality, 491 00:39:21,652 --> 00:39:25,108 there is a umbrella for this called American Panorama 492 00:39:25,132 --> 00:39:31,359 and that includes some of the mapping of things like urban renewal, 493 00:39:31,359 --> 00:39:34,240 interstate highways that they'll just talk about 494 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:41,440 So I think I'm gonna switch gears now and make sure we have enough time for some Q&As 495 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:51,359 but before we do that Sabrina Johnson who is going to take--moderate the Q&A period. 496 00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:56,432 She as a question of her own so I want to give her the chance to ask that. 497 00:39:56,456 --> 00:40:02,265 I think we're going to try to time this for two answers, one from each 498 00:40:02,289 --> 00:40:07,277 and we apologize if we're not going to be able to get to all your 499 00:40:07,277 --> 00:40:10,717 questions here today, I'm sure there are lots of them, 500 00:40:10,717 --> 00:40:13,916 but we are thinking through a process in which 501 00:40:13,916 --> 00:40:20,237 we're gonna get them all answered, and made available to everybody. 502 00:40:20,237 --> 00:40:24,237 So bear with us on this, we're learning this process. 503 00:40:24,237 --> 00:40:27,105 This is the first one of a pretty big endeavor 504 00:40:27,129 --> 00:40:31,037 and so also I want to thank you for that. 505 00:40:31,037 --> 00:40:35,436 So Sabrina why don't I turn it over to you? 506 00:40:36,317 --> 00:40:40,317 Sabrina Johnson: All right good afternoon, thanks so much, Charles. 507 00:40:40,317 --> 00:40:45,705 The comments and questions that are coming in indeed reflect the deep interest 508 00:40:45,929 --> 00:40:48,656 that this topic holds for so many, so thank you. 509 00:40:48,656 --> 00:40:52,797 And this is a question for both of you please, 510 00:40:52,797 --> 00:40:56,995 LaDale and Rob, as college professors who have undertaken 511 00:40:57,019 --> 00:41:02,296 this cross-discipline applied research approach 512 00:41:02,396 --> 00:41:05,757 to producing this really invaluable resource, 513 00:41:05,757 --> 00:41:11,117 what kinds of developments would you like to see in educational curricula 514 00:41:11,117 --> 00:41:17,357 from perhaps college all the way back to maybe middle school to prepare students 515 00:41:17,357 --> 00:41:23,117 to undertake these kinds of explorations that visually connect historical 516 00:41:23,117 --> 00:41:28,765 policy decisions to real world current conditions in communities? 517 00:41:28,789 --> 00:41:31,676 Thanks. 518 00:41:31,837 --> 00:41:35,498 LaDale Winling: So maybe Rob I'll go first and I just want to say that 519 00:41:35,522 --> 00:41:39,517 one of my like career and lifelong inspirations has been 520 00:41:39,517 --> 00:41:42,877 from Anne Winston Spurn who is a landscape architect 521 00:41:42,877 --> 00:41:47,965 and scholar and she led in Philadelphia something 522 00:41:47,989 --> 00:41:49,977 called the West Philadelphia Landscape Project 523 00:41:50,077 --> 00:41:52,705 where it took architecture landscape architecture 524 00:41:52,729 --> 00:41:58,237 and planning students at Penn working with grade school 525 00:41:58,237 --> 00:42:02,317 secondary school students to take them into their communities 526 00:42:02,317 --> 00:42:07,225 to teach them to draw and sketch, to map and to incorporate 527 00:42:07,249 --> 00:42:13,627 and understand how their local-- their local environmental conditions 528 00:42:13,651 --> 00:42:18,065 whether it be lowlands led to flooding basements 529 00:42:18,089 --> 00:42:23,232 and all of the kind of health problems and challenges that that entailed 530 00:42:23,356 --> 00:42:27,065 as well as foundation and home deterioration, 531 00:42:27,089 --> 00:42:32,396 as well as teaching them about environmental 532 00:42:32,396 --> 00:42:38,451 the soil--soil quality and pollution sources and how the conditions 533 00:42:38,475 --> 00:42:42,157 that they lived in were not like out of history that they were 534 00:42:42,356 --> 00:42:46,637 something that they could both learn about in school and see in their community. 535 00:42:46,637 --> 00:42:49,916 So I think that kind of community engagement has always been 536 00:42:49,916 --> 00:42:53,357 an inspiration for me and I think a goal 537 00:42:53,357 --> 00:43:03,232 of an emerging goal for historians and scholars of all kind of humanistic type. 538 00:43:03,256 --> 00:43:05,436 And so incorporating that into the curriculum 539 00:43:05,436 --> 00:43:11,765 civic engagement and thinking about how we can see these kinds of phenomena 540 00:43:11,789 --> 00:43:13,236 that we read about in our textbooks 541 00:43:13,436 --> 00:43:17,916 that we can see them in our communities and I would say, I would love it, 542 00:43:17,916 --> 00:43:24,557 if students in every city with a redlining map like downloaded 543 00:43:24,557 --> 00:43:29,117 or printed out their local map and then went to investigate 544 00:43:29,117 --> 00:43:33,436 the conditions around their school, around their houses and neighborhoods 545 00:43:33,436 --> 00:43:38,405 as a way of understanding, say climate just weather patterns, 546 00:43:38,429 --> 00:43:42,158 for example, pollution soil quality, air quality 547 00:43:42,182 --> 00:43:47,277 and issues like medicine and public health 548 00:43:47,277 --> 00:43:52,765 learning in your community I think is among the highest goals 549 00:43:52,789 --> 00:43:57,597 of secondary and post-secondary education. 550 00:43:57,597 --> 00:44:00,797 Robert Nelson: I'll say three quick things like basically 551 00:44:00,797 --> 00:44:03,484 want to echo start by echoing Dale, I mean civic engagement 552 00:44:03,508 --> 00:44:08,298 and the thing I'd amplify that with is or add to that is, 553 00:44:08,322 --> 00:44:11,037 I'm not-- I mean I do digital history all the time, 554 00:44:11,037 --> 00:44:15,196 I run a digital scholarship lab and I'm pretty invested in digital humanities at 555 00:44:15,196 --> 00:44:16,765 the same time. 556 00:44:16,889 --> 00:44:20,377 I just want students whether they be in sixth grade 557 00:44:20,377 --> 00:44:25,032 or 10th grade or in college to learn more about history too 558 00:44:25,156 --> 00:44:27,457 like I feel like we really do need an invigoration 559 00:44:27,457 --> 00:44:31,645 of history and civics and social studies curriculum across the country 560 00:44:31,669 --> 00:44:41,196 and particularly with folding in like a DI, like an emphasis on diversity equity 561 00:44:41,196 --> 00:44:46,965 equity and inclusivity, and yeah, so and you could do that 562 00:44:46,989 --> 00:44:50,898 through some online resources like mapping inequality 563 00:44:50,922 --> 00:44:52,637 another one I will give a shout out to is, 564 00:44:52,637 --> 00:44:56,557 it's a really great, site for educators mapping, 565 00:44:56,557 --> 00:45:03,037 a new American history which is one of my colleagues in Annie Evans 566 00:45:03,037 --> 00:45:08,032 is the Director of Educational Outreach for that and there's some lesson plans 567 00:45:08,056 --> 00:45:11,517 for using and teaching resources for using mapping inequality 568 00:45:11,517 --> 00:45:14,264 and other American Panorama maps there. 569 00:45:14,288 --> 00:45:17,598 But just more history [CHUCKLES] 570 00:45:17,622 --> 00:45:22,957 we've just yeah, as a society it's really kind of been an attenuation of-- 571 00:45:22,957 --> 00:45:31,732 of his history in the curriculum [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and I'm all learned disciplines too, 572 00:45:31,756 --> 00:45:33,837 but we also need to have appreciation of the past. 573 00:45:33,837 --> 00:45:37,517 And then finally just on the subject of teachers 574 00:45:37,517 --> 00:45:43,223 I mean I want to be humble and just acknowledge that teachers do things-- have done things 575 00:45:43,347 --> 00:45:46,156 and the things I've seen them do with mapping equality have blown me away like things 576 00:45:46,156 --> 00:45:52,396 I would never have imagined and are so creative, and so innovative 577 00:45:52,396 --> 00:45:58,565 that I'm-- I hesitate to say like I gave a recommendation about teaching to any 578 00:45:58,589 --> 00:46:03,277 sixth grade teacher, and one example that's coming to mind is 579 00:46:03,277 --> 00:46:07,704 a tweet I saw where somebody was using mapping inequality 580 00:46:07,728 --> 00:46:12,298 and having students they were reading Othello 581 00:46:12,322 --> 00:46:14,396 and looking and thinking about kind of racialized 582 00:46:14,396 --> 00:46:18,077 language in Shakespeare in that particular play 583 00:46:18,077 --> 00:46:22,398 and mapping inequality and thinking about racialized language across time 584 00:46:22,422 --> 00:46:25,597 and in this case across, across continents. 585 00:46:25,597 --> 00:46:30,477 I'm blown away by what a lot of teachers have done with 586 00:46:30,477 --> 00:46:36,077 mapping inequality deeply appreciative of the work they put into it. 587 00:46:36,877 --> 00:46:38,698 Sabrina Johnson: Okay, thank you. 588 00:46:38,822 --> 00:46:42,077 I think part of this you covered just a little bit, 589 00:46:42,077 --> 00:46:44,797 but this question came from anonymous 590 00:46:44,797 --> 00:46:51,037 and it got a lot of support from others who were interested in this question also 591 00:46:51,037 --> 00:46:57,517 is there a way for smaller cities or any city to find out such history for 592 00:46:57,517 --> 00:46:59,665 your own community. 593 00:46:59,689 --> 00:47:01,416 Robert Nelson: Can I jump in here now Dale? 594 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,214 LaDale Winling: So yeah go forward. 595 00:47:02,338 --> 00:47:07,037 Robert Nelson: We're so the way the program works for the national 596 00:47:07,037 --> 00:47:11,037 Homeowners' Loan Corporation, the Federal Office is, they when they set a criteria 597 00:47:11,037 --> 00:47:14,165 that we're going to do cities that are 40,000 or more, 598 00:47:14,189 --> 00:47:20,237 so that any city that didn't have 40,000 people in 1930 599 00:47:20,237 --> 00:47:24,398 will likely wasn't going to get a federal drawn map, 600 00:47:24,422 --> 00:47:27,911 but the state offices sometimes took this methodology 601 00:47:27,935 --> 00:47:30,263 and created their own maps and some of these are in the National Archives 602 00:47:30,387 --> 00:47:32,652 and we, Dale and I have been kind of back 603 00:47:32,676 --> 00:47:35,398 and forth having an email exchange with somebody at the National Archives 604 00:47:35,422 --> 00:47:39,165 and there's about 60 maps, it's not a lot, 605 00:47:39,189 --> 00:47:43,916 but it's better than nothing in places like North Dakota, 606 00:47:43,916 --> 00:47:50,105 Oklahoma a lot of the number of smaller cities in North Carolina and Tennessee 607 00:47:50,129 --> 00:47:55,745 and we're going to be we're hoping to add those to mapping inequality 608 00:47:55,769 --> 00:48:03,517 and I hesitate to do this, there's a fund raiser in California 609 00:48:03,517 --> 00:48:06,636 who was interested in this project, he's on this planning commission 610 00:48:06,636 --> 00:48:10,557 in a some I think that's San Mateo I think 611 00:48:10,557 --> 00:48:14,344 and he started a fundraiser to raise money for the National Archives 612 00:48:14,368 --> 00:48:17,398 to digitize the entirety of the redlining documents they have, 613 00:48:17,422 --> 00:48:19,965 because we what we have on the on mapping quality is, 614 00:48:19,989 --> 00:48:22,797 I think maybe the most interesting portion of that, 615 00:48:22,797 --> 00:48:26,785 but there's it's just that also just scratches the surface 616 00:48:26,909 --> 00:48:31,065 and there's a lot of interesting materials there 617 00:48:31,089 --> 00:48:36,317 and so they're raising money to give bonnie to the-- give a gift to the National Archives 618 00:48:36,317 --> 00:48:40,237 to digitize and make that entirely available, this is that if anybody wants 619 00:48:40,237 --> 00:48:44,317 to do this I think that the site is donorbox.org 620 00:48:44,317 --> 00:48:49,147 mapping equality if you're interested in contributing to this effort. 621 00:48:49,371 --> 00:48:53,037 And so we do have a plan to add a number of cities 622 00:48:53,037 --> 00:48:57,832 and most of them smaller cities, but it-- chances are 623 00:48:57,856 --> 00:49:00,560 we get this-- I get the questions about this every day 624 00:49:00,584 --> 00:49:05,196 and I always have to write back and say like, I'm sorry, 625 00:49:05,196 --> 00:49:08,398 no we're probably not going to be able to find a map for your city, 626 00:49:08,422 --> 00:49:14,077 so and that is the case in most small localities in the country. 627 00:49:14,077 --> 00:49:16,802 LaDale Winling: But one thing I would say is that 628 00:49:16,826 --> 00:49:19,037 we fundamentally believe I mean 629 00:49:19,037 --> 00:49:27,132 in the work of local historians and while the redlining process 630 00:49:27,156 --> 00:49:31,298 and archive is an important one it's not the only one, 631 00:49:31,322 --> 00:49:35,837 and I point out the city of Evanston, Illinois is the first 632 00:49:35,837 --> 00:49:40,636 municipality in the country to create a reparations program, 633 00:49:40,636 --> 00:49:44,077 and the way that they built the case the way that policymakers 634 00:49:44,077 --> 00:49:49,517 built the case for this was, they went to a local historian 635 00:49:49,517 --> 00:49:58,317 and said we know that there is a long history of disenfranchisement of racial inequality 636 00:49:58,317 --> 00:50:04,732 and we think the time is right to build a long-term case of over a century 637 00:50:04,756 --> 00:50:09,837 of justification or documenting this case for reparations. 638 00:50:09,837 --> 00:50:13,196 And so a local historian in Evanston, Illinois 639 00:50:13,196 --> 00:50:16,957 produced like a 75-page report documenting this, 640 00:50:16,957 --> 00:50:21,277 so that everyone could understand and grapple with 641 00:50:21,277 --> 00:50:29,597 those that history and those kind of empirical like facts and processes. 642 00:50:29,597 --> 00:50:35,517 And redlining was part of the case of that, but not the only one 643 00:50:35,517 --> 00:50:38,396 and like that was the work of a local historian 644 00:50:38,396 --> 00:50:44,832 and those kinds of sources and those kinds of people with those expertise 645 00:50:44,856 --> 00:50:48,396 are in every community in the country, 646 00:50:48,396 --> 00:50:51,694 you don't need a redlining map to do oral histories, 647 00:50:51,718 --> 00:50:55,898 you don't need a redlining map to look at city planning documents 648 00:50:55,922 --> 00:51:01,246 to be able to document some of these processes 649 00:51:01,370 --> 00:51:07,532 for better and for worse and so we like one of the things that 650 00:51:07,556 --> 00:51:10,237 Rob I'm sure will agree that has impressed us most 651 00:51:10,237 --> 00:51:15,332 is that like there are so many people with so many good ideas 652 00:51:15,356 --> 00:51:20,717 and so much expertise that transcend what we're 653 00:51:20,717 --> 00:51:25,357 even capable of imagining and so in some ways like you can find those 654 00:51:25,357 --> 00:51:32,557 resources in your community and do way more than we've done with it. 655 00:51:32,577 --> 00:51:35,243 Matthew Tejada: I just want to address real quickly this is Matthew Tejada, 656 00:51:35,267 --> 00:51:38,565 Director of the Office of Environmental Justice for EPA. 657 00:51:38,589 --> 00:51:42,498 Love that Rob is giving some shout outs to some colleagues in other projects out there 658 00:51:42,522 --> 00:51:46,237 but EPA does not endorse or suggest to any of the members of the public on 659 00:51:46,237 --> 00:51:52,165 behalf of EPA that individuals donate to that particular organization, Sabrina? 660 00:51:52,189 --> 00:51:53,665 Robert Nelson: I was just thinking I might have screwed that up, 661 00:51:53,689 --> 00:52:00,757 so sorry to the EPA that was my bad, I realized as soon as I left my mouth. 662 00:52:00,757 --> 00:52:02,025 [LAUGHS] 663 00:52:02,049 --> 00:52:03,783 Matthew Tejada: Said what we had to say it's good. 664 00:52:03,807 --> 00:52:04,377 [LAUGHS] 665 00:52:04,877 --> 00:52:07,916 Sabrina Johnson: Oh, thanks for that clarification. 666 00:52:07,916 --> 00:52:11,436 We have a question from Mary Beth who asks 667 00:52:11,436 --> 00:52:15,676 how do you see your work in relationship to some of the formative work in this 668 00:52:15,676 --> 00:52:21,436 field like Massey and Denton's American Apartheid? 669 00:52:22,477 --> 00:52:26,156 LaDale Winling: I'll say we definitely would not have, 670 00:52:26,156 --> 00:52:29,357 this would not have been on our radar had 671 00:52:29,357 --> 00:52:32,877 the work of Massey and Denton even before that 672 00:52:32,877 --> 00:52:39,436 Kenneth Jackson in Crabgrass Frontier or in the policy realm like Robert Weaver 673 00:52:39,436 --> 00:52:43,997 and like Charles Abrams, there's a long long history I mean if 674 00:52:43,997 --> 00:52:52,724 we're really fortunate to stand on the shoulders of giants with this project. 675 00:52:52,748 --> 00:53:02,797 We had the idea that there was a benefit, an unexplored benefit, an unexplored 676 00:53:02,797 --> 00:53:10,317 kind of conclusions to be drawn to looking at the whole data set, right? 677 00:53:10,317 --> 00:53:16,165 Many historians and scholars sociologists have looked at a number of individual cases 678 00:53:16,189 --> 00:53:21,312 and there was an established narrative about redlining 679 00:53:21,336 --> 00:53:26,597 that we thought we could both complicate as well as like enrich. 680 00:53:26,797 --> 00:53:38,156 And so like we absolutely point to, we've got a bibliographic essay about important work 681 00:53:38,156 --> 00:53:48,237 on redlining that informs our own, and we see-- I think we've also been surprised at 682 00:53:48,237 --> 00:53:51,117 some of the new conclusions as Rob mentioned like the environmental 683 00:53:51,117 --> 00:53:54,698 science and the public health that few people, 684 00:53:54,722 --> 00:53:58,665 even when we got started were thinking about this, 685 00:53:58,689 --> 00:54:00,957 and so in some ways were a vehicle 686 00:54:00,957 --> 00:54:10,798 for like-- this is both fuel for kind of a reckoning of racial injustice, 687 00:54:10,822 --> 00:54:20,832 but also a tool for understanding these communities and community industries, 688 00:54:20,856 --> 00:54:25,277 and a tool for scholars to bring these digital resources to bear 689 00:54:25,277 --> 00:54:28,957 on their own work in a variety of disciplines. 690 00:54:28,957 --> 00:54:32,057 Robert Nelson: Yeah, and I just had that echoing 691 00:54:32,157 --> 00:54:37,165 Dale-- mapping inequality kind of leads on the raw side 692 00:54:37,189 --> 00:54:39,343 I mean these are primary sources and they're organized 693 00:54:39,367 --> 00:54:42,717 and we have a point of view for sure that we're trying to communicate here 694 00:54:42,717 --> 00:54:48,156 and a story we're trying to tell through visualizations through data storytelling. 695 00:54:48,156 --> 00:54:56,565 At the same time it's not a hard-hitting analysis or interpretation 696 00:54:56,589 --> 00:54:58,953 which is what you'll get from other stories 697 00:54:58,977 --> 00:55:02,717 and if you're inclined to really understand this you should 698 00:55:02,717 --> 00:55:07,585 read other historians of race and housing for sure. 699 00:55:07,609 --> 00:55:10,058 And then the other final thing I'd say is 700 00:55:10,157 --> 00:55:16,857 the mapping inequality is great at I think surfacing the systemic 701 00:55:16,957 --> 00:55:21,245 nature of redlining, but what it doesn't do and maps don't do particularly 702 00:55:21,269 --> 00:55:24,598 well and data doesn't do particularly well is get at 703 00:55:24,622 --> 00:55:30,317 the human experiential side of this [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 704 00:55:30,636 --> 00:55:34,317 you're not gonna get a sense of the struggle of 705 00:55:34,317 --> 00:55:41,430 African-American family who's, trying to find a decent place to live 706 00:55:41,454 --> 00:55:48,077 and trying to maybe use buying a house as an opportunity 707 00:55:48,077 --> 00:55:52,732 to build some wealth or just or at least not be fleeced 708 00:55:52,756 --> 00:55:58,477 by a slum lord or by some kind of contract sales or something like that 709 00:55:58,477 --> 00:56:02,933 and mapping inequality does it doesn't tell that story 710 00:56:02,957 --> 00:56:04,755 and those stories are told by other people 711 00:56:04,780 --> 00:56:11,676 and so it's not a mapping equality is useful, but it's not a substitute for 712 00:56:11,676 --> 00:56:16,557 reading articles of books on the subject. 713 00:56:16,557 --> 00:56:19,778 LaDale Winling: Like most specifically about Massey and Denton 714 00:56:19,802 --> 00:56:23,517 at the turn of the century there was an established 715 00:56:23,517 --> 00:56:27,196 narrative about redlining which was kind of flat or that it was a blanket, 716 00:56:27,196 --> 00:56:29,898 if you were if you're in a d or red-lined neighborhood, 717 00:56:29,922 --> 00:56:36,198 it was a blanket rejection of mortgages and of investment. 718 00:56:36,222 --> 00:56:42,898 And we know now that that's not like exactly the case 719 00:56:42,922 --> 00:56:46,717 that there were certainly patterns of discrimination which were very forceful, 720 00:56:46,717 --> 00:56:49,045 but we see that it's a much more complicated 721 00:56:49,069 --> 00:56:53,373 and like in some ways worse said a set of stories, 722 00:56:53,397 --> 00:57:03,037 but that a d-rated neighborhood was a finger on the scale against investment and against 723 00:57:03,037 --> 00:57:06,396 development of infrastructure, 724 00:57:06,396 --> 00:57:12,237 but that there could be ways around that and that there's a lot of 725 00:57:12,237 --> 00:57:15,676 it's not determinative, there's a lot of opportunities for 726 00:57:15,676 --> 00:57:22,717 like human intervention, creativity and like community mobilization. 727 00:57:22,717 --> 00:57:26,237 And so the story is like not yet fully written 728 00:57:26,237 --> 00:57:30,876 on the consequences and impact of redlining. 729 00:57:31,357 --> 00:57:36,391 Sabrina Johnson: Okay we might have time for one more 730 00:57:36,415 --> 00:57:41,689 and it links well with your a previous comment, Linda asks 731 00:57:41,813 --> 00:57:46,477 when the veterans administration got into the home loan guarantee business 732 00:57:46,477 --> 00:57:55,357 did it buy into redlining, did veterans of color experience racism when purchasing a home? 733 00:57:55,357 --> 00:58:03,117 LaDale Winling: Yes, absolutely, not only we work on this project. 734 00:58:03,117 --> 00:58:06,237 I and a number of colleagues have some of our own kind of 735 00:58:06,237 --> 00:58:10,725 like published scholarly research, a collaborator I have Todd Mitchney, 736 00:58:10,749 --> 00:58:16,613 who's also kind of gonna works with us a bit on mapping inequality as illustrated. 737 00:58:16,637 --> 00:58:23,037 So VA really got heavily involved after the establishment of the 1944 738 00:58:23,037 --> 00:58:26,077 Servicemen's Readjustment Act or the G.I Bill, 739 00:58:26,077 --> 00:58:33,712 that's when it really ramped up and so after, 1944 basically these are tracked 740 00:58:33,736 --> 00:58:39,432 through the 19, through the census every 10 years. In the 1940 census 741 00:58:39,456 --> 00:58:46,636 mortgages and mortgage guarantees by HOLC and FHA are somewhat inequitable, 742 00:58:46,636 --> 00:58:53,597 it's that from 1950 and beyond when FHA and VA become the main 743 00:58:53,597 --> 00:58:57,597 like the main sources of federal support for mortgages 744 00:58:57,597 --> 00:59:01,477 through the veterans mortgage guarantee that it becomes 745 00:59:01,477 --> 00:59:07,234 unbelievably, like orders of magnitude worse in terms of equity 746 00:59:07,258 --> 00:59:12,557 and so there was absolutely both hard and soft discrimination 747 00:59:12,557 --> 00:59:19,837 against black veterans, let lower amounts for a mortgage 748 00:59:19,837 --> 00:59:26,232 worse terms and less likelihood of getting the mortgage guarantee 749 00:59:26,256 --> 00:59:30,717 and so VA comes in the post-war period. 750 00:59:31,196 --> 00:59:36,477 Sabrina Johnson: Wow! Such revelations and I'm looking at the clock and I know 751 00:59:36,477 --> 00:59:40,965 we're going to have to wind things down, so let me toss it back to Charles now, 752 00:59:40,989 --> 00:59:47,516 but thank you so much. Thank you everyone for your questions. 753 00:59:50,117 --> 00:59:56,966 Male Voice: You are on mute, Charles. 754 00:59:56,990 --> 01:00:00,832 Charles Lee: Sorry about that, thank you Sabrina, 755 01:00:00,956 --> 01:00:05,757 and I want to close now, we can go on for a long time on this 756 01:00:05,757 --> 01:00:12,156 and we're just beginning, but certainly I need to make a 757 01:00:12,156 --> 01:00:18,732 deep appreciation to Robert Nelson and LaDale Winling for their great presentations 758 01:00:18,756 --> 01:00:28,396 and wonderful insights, and I also want to make sure we thank the production team 759 01:00:28,396 --> 01:00:32,797 for this effort at the Office of Environmental Justice 760 01:00:32,797 --> 01:00:41,037 namely Sabrina Johnson, Matt Tejada, Maria Wallace, Rebecca Huff, Christina Multilau 761 01:00:41,037 --> 01:00:49,357 and Erica Ferro as well as the EPA's MS live events trainers, Marry Cuda 762 01:00:49,357 --> 01:00:57,465 and Scott Lewis, who gave us invaluable assistance in mastering this new platform. 763 01:00:57,489 --> 01:01:03,597 I certainly have to thank all of you who helped to spread the word on this series 764 01:01:03,597 --> 01:01:11,277 without your efforts we would not have achieved the tremendous numbers for the session. 765 01:01:11,277 --> 01:01:18,565 Our next session which-- the information for which is on the slide is scheduled for April 6, 766 01:01:18,689 --> 01:01:22,465 it will be on Redlining and the Climate Crisis, 767 01:01:22,489 --> 01:01:30,132 it would focus on Community Engaged Research in this area. 768 01:01:30,256 --> 01:01:36,636 Our two guests will be Dr. Jeremy Hoffman from the Virginia Science Museum 769 01:01:36,636 --> 01:01:41,117 and Dr. Vivek Shandas from Portland State University. 770 01:01:41,117 --> 01:01:45,357 The registration information is on the slide 771 01:01:45,357 --> 01:01:50,965 and we will also email it to each of you for your information. 772 01:01:51,189 --> 01:01:55,865 Along with that we will be emailing you an evaluation form. 773 01:01:55,889 --> 01:02:01,436 I would appreciate your filling it out, the Powerpoint slides will be on 774 01:02:01,536 --> 01:02:05,837 will be posted as well as the recording when it's ready 775 01:02:05,837 --> 01:02:12,767 on the OEJ website and we will also make sure you all get that information. 776 01:02:12,767 --> 01:02:18,022 As I said before there are going to-- they have been 777 01:02:18,046 --> 01:02:22,557 and Sabrina verified that a lot of questions 778 01:02:22,557 --> 01:02:26,698 asked and we're figuring out a way to get them all answered 779 01:02:26,722 --> 01:02:34,717 and made available to all of you, so please, bear with us as we're learning this process 780 01:02:34,717 --> 01:02:41,398 and if you have suggestions about how to make this series the most effective 781 01:02:41,422 --> 01:02:45,436 and most beneficial to you, we would definitely welcome them. 782 01:02:45,436 --> 01:02:51,837 So with that I want to close and thank you again for participating 783 01:02:51,837 --> 01:02:58,717 in what I believe is a dialogue that is truly important to the future of the nation. 784 01:02:58,717 --> 01:03:00,698 Thank you, and take care. 785 01:03:00,722 --> 01:03:02,016 Male Voice: Thank you.